GOP wages taxes civil war

>>> the republican civil war is now treading on sacred republican ground. a subject that has always previously united the party. the subject where never a word of dissent is allowed. taxes.

>> rates are going up for everyone on december 31st if nothing happens. if you think republicans can win a showdown on preserving all the bush tax rates against a president who just was re-elected on just raising rates on millionaires, good luck. i don't think it's winnable. again, republicans will cave.

>> the influential conservative editor of "the weekly standard ," bill kristol , is facing the republican civil war .

>> what were the top margeinal tax rates under reagan? 39% by it's will not cripple the economy.

>> rush limbaugh is trying to fight back, but it doesn't sound like he has much fight in him.

>> do the democrats after losing elections, ever say, you know what? we're going to have to cut taxes if we are ever going to get back in touch with the american people . they don't. they don't. we, on the other hand are the exact opposite. we start making tracks to abandoning our principles and loyalists as fast as we can. all to precede them.

>> "the new york times" reports on a conference call with house republicans a day after the general election , john boehner said they would continue to staunchly oppose tax rate increases, but on sunday. bill kristolly to republican house members it's not just them versus the president, it's them versus history.

>> i think republicans will have to give in much more than they think. four presidents in the last election vo won 50% of the vote twice. roosevelt, eisenhower, reagan, and obama. republicans in the house will be able to get some concessions, but i think there will be a big budget deal next year, and it will be much moran obama budget deal than paul ryan budget deal. elections have consequences. karen capehart , did you expect anything this big this fast? bill kristol is influential with republicans in washington. i'm stunned with what i'm hearing?

>> i almost fell out of my chair when boehner said revenues. the idea of increasing revenues. that's a central argument that we have been having over the last four years, and the very expensive i told you so i guess. if we're going to get to this problem, we have to deal with revenues, we can't just do it all on the spending side.

>> jonathan capehart , there is bill kristol teaching republicans how to talk about this. but it does involve a word for word refutation of what they said in the past, that higher rates will kill the economy. there is bill kristol pointing out how we've done perfectly fine under higher rates in the past.

>> what he's trying to get through to republicans , particularly the new class that came in in 2010 , okay, you campaigned on all of these promises, but now it's time to govern and things have come to a standstill in washington over the last two years, and now with the fiscal cliff or fiscal curve coming, and the president being re-elected with more than 50% of the vote, it's time to make a deal. and everyone knows that in order -- that the real deal that economists will view as serious has to be a balanced approach, a mix of cuts and revenue increases.

>> and, karen , it is a fiscal curve. i have officially renamed it the fiscal curve on the show. and by the way, we're soliciting the audience to have new designs for fiscal off the curve buttons here and we'll have that as soon as our artists and audience come up with. it happens quite frad you'lly, a little slope, and when we go off it, which i expect we will in the first week of january. nothing big will happen if the first month and it gives the congress plenty of time to rush a solution into place, which i think is the only way that we'll actually make sense to get the democrats the solution they need.

>> i think that's right. i think the contours of a deal are out there. now that the republicans are acknowledging that math equals math, which i think, again, the election helped to prove, we're able to have a grownup conversation about these things. look, while they won't say publicly, they all said the political reality is that john boehner is not in the same position to negotiate with the president that he was before. he lost seats. the president won a second term, and the central argument in this campaign was exactly this issue. so they are sort of negotiating with themselves a bit in the public eye. when it comes to sitting down across the table with the president, they will have to get down to brass tacks in a way they didn't before.

>> karen finney and jonathan capehart , thank you for joining me tonight.

>> thank you, lawrence.

>> coming up, breaking news tonight in the investigation of david petraeus , the fbi conducted a search of the home of paula broadwell. we'll have all the breaking news, developments in that case, coming up. hi