The Gaggle: Fiscal cliff

>>> lawmakers have less than a month. both sides can't agree on elements of a deal. they can't even agree on whether a deal will get done before the end of the year.

>> do you think we'll get a deal by the end of the year?

>> i do. the only thing standing in the way of that would be a refusal by republicans to accept that rates will have to go up on the wealthiest americans .

>> i would say we're nowhere, period, we're nowhere.

>> let's bring in our monday gaggle. clarence thomas , kristen solstice, and jech from "the new york times." clarence thomas , the one person here who was there when led zeppelin got it started. i'm sorry. i'm shaken by led zeppelin as a kennedy center honor yae.

>> i saw them warm up for luciano in 1969 .

>> and probably has been honored at the kennedy center .

>> i want to tell you.

>> you've seen a lot of these end of the year negotiations. do you feel as if you've seen this movie before or are things different this time?

>> what's interesting this time is barack obama has been re-elected and he's obviously feeling his oats because he's moved back to his earlier position in terms of negotiating points that in the past his own left wing had criticized him for giving up too soon.

>> right.

>> and you could tell both sides are dug in because neither is talking to each other, talking to the american public. and this is a pr game.

>> and, kristen, you've done some work for the house republicans conference. and there are ways where you are making the argument and help polling that makes the argument raising tax rates are not what the american public wants. they agree on seeing the rich pay more but don't do it via rates that scares them off. is that polling data -- it seems like it's a tough message for the republicans.

>> it is a tough message for republicans. so i think they're conceding we need to have more revenue come from somewhere. the question is, are all dollars of revenue treated equally? and the problem now is while speaker boehner wants to put ref gnaw on the table, democrats have a lot of push back about where it's coming from. the data that we've shown shows voters want to see if revenue can come from making the tax code simpler, that's great.

>> if santa claus existed, that would be right, too? do the numbers. does boehner need to produce a more detailed plan that proves that he's right?

>> at least in negotiations they need to show where is this money going to come from. but if the numbers add up and you can prove they will come from closing the loopholes. what we've seen now is this idea that, unfortunately, democrats pushed throughout the election. if we just ask the wealthy to pay more that will balance our budget and if those numbers don't add up either. the trouble is our nation is in such a tough fiscal situation we can't do it by just raising rates on the top 2%.

>> when it comes to entitlements, we're not putting a plan on the table. if you want it, you put it on the table.

>> that's what we're seeing. the white house is fully aware of having its open problem with democrats on this.

>> so they don't want to own it.

>> they don't want to own it. at the end of the day some of the burden is on this white house , on this president to convince some democrats to come along. it is only december 3. it of early for panic button. i think we'll see the week before christmas, perhaps, even the week between the holidays for something to get done. there's still a big need on both sides to make a deal here and i think they will.

>> so the president is not listening to communication.

>> he's golfing.

>> the president acted -- all right. when we come back i want to talk about the republicans and that hillary clinton convention. that tribute video. our question we asked how many sitting senators have served continuously since they were first elected. the answer is 90. there are two senators who had a break in their service. one is new jersey's frank lautenberg who was elected in 1982 , retired in 2001 . then came back two years lates. senator dan coats , he changed his mind about retirement and re-elected in 2010 . george allen tried to join that club but didn't make it. if you have a trivia