Penalty vs. tax?

>> mitt romney says the held care law is bad policy for the country, but is it good politics for him? and what's his plan to replace the law? he plans to repeal if elected. good morning. happy fourth of july week.

>> thank you, chuck. let me start with this issue that we saw gobbled up a lot of time on the sunday shows which is is the mandate a tax or penalty? you work for governor romney in massachusetts . what did you call it in massachusetts ? was the mandate, was it a tax or penalty? what did you call it in massachusetts ?

>> first let me say that when the supreme court ruling came down last week within an hour or two, governor romney went before the cameras and said he disagreed with the findings of the ruling, he disagreed with the logic. he agreed with the dissent and the dissent clearly stated that the mandate was not a tax. i do think that president obama 's position is contradictory and unsustainable. on the one hand the team is celebrating the majority opinion of the court. they accept the opinion of the court but they argue against the central premise.

>> but what did you call knit in massachusetts ?

>> it because penalty. the governor had all the authority he needed to put in place the reforms that he did put in place. look, aside from the question of obama care's constitutionality, it should be repealed for a whole host of reasons. it raises a series of taxes. it's bad for seniors because it cuts medicare. it's bad for our budget because it spends money we can't afford and bad for the middle class because it puts the government in between the relationship a patient has with the doctor.

>> i don't want to drop this yet. i have to admit. i am a little confused. let me play mitt romney from 2008 .

>> if you can afford to buy insurance, then buy it. you don't have to. but then you have got to put enough money aside to pay your own way. we're not going to say --

>> you impose tax penalties.

>> we said if people can afford to buy it, buy it or pay your own way. don't be free riders and pass on the cost of your health care to everybody else.

>> i play that because it -- what is the difference between what he is saying and what the president and all of these democrats on sunday said and what governor romney said in 2009 when he said using tax penalties as we did or tax credits encourages free riders to take responsibility for themselves rather than pass it on to others. he was not making an argument simply for the massachusetts plan for the 2009 piece.

>> the governor was clear since the passage of held care reforms. what we did in massachusetts works for massachusetts . it may not necessarily work in california, texas, or oklahoma. what we did works in massachusetts . it was never meant to be a one size fits all. the governor has described the mandate as a penalty. let's take a step back and look at what the president has said about obama care. in order to get it past the congress, he insisted pubically and to the members of congress that the mandate was not a tax. after it passed, he sent his solicitor general up to court to argue that it was a tax. now he is back to arguing that it's not a tax.

>> you guys called it a tax?

>> the governor disagreed with the ruling of the court. clearly stated that the mandate was not a tax.

>> okay. which -- so i guess -- we're -- i think we're talking around each other. the governor does not believe the mandate is a tax? that is what you're saying?

>> the governor believes what we put in place in massachusetts was a penalty and he disagrees with the court's ruling that it is not a tax.

>> but he agrees with the president that it is not -- and he believes that you should not call the tax penalty a tax, you should call it a penalty or a fee or a fine?

>> that's correct. but the president also needs to be held accountable for his contradictory statements. he has described it variously as a penalty and as a tax. he needs to reconcile those two very different statements.

>> before i let you go, i want to ask you to respond to this tweet. i am sure you have seen it over the weekend. met mitt romney last week. will be hard to beat unless he drops old friends from team and hires real pros.

>> we're very happy with the team that we have. we're happy with the state of the race. i can't respond to every tweet that he sends out. but we like the way things are right now in the days after the obama care ruling, we have raised $6.7 million online. over 70,000 do nations. i think people are voting with their dollars and they want a person who will reverse the big government tax and spend policies that are being pursued by this president and get somebody in the white house who is going to focus on jobs and the economy.

>> all right. i'm going leave it there. have a safe and happy fourth of july. have a good week.