Contraception Controversy
>>> well, as we told you at the top of the show, the obama administration is under fire from catholics on both sides of the political spectrum for its decision to rare all employers, even religious affiliated ones, to provide insurance coverage for contraception. how much of a liability will this be for the president politically some joining take the deep d ive, george , ian, welcome to you both. george , let's start with you. the administration has been making the distinction that this ruling is-of half the country is already living under this and over half of catholic affiliated organizations have been living with state rulings similar to this for years. so why be up in arms about this.
>> a couple reasons. first of all, will it's make clear, it's not just catholics who are up in arms about this. there are jews, the orthodox churches . many evangelical protestants who are deeply upset about this because it's for the just a contraceptive mandate. it's a mandate that includes abortion inducing drugs and sterilization. and that cuts across a lot of religious divides in america. i think this has brought people's attention to the fact that you've got a government that is claiming the right to tell religious organizations that they must roy a service which their own teaching claims is immoral. this is a constitutional new step that i think has creates the an enormous fuss it's also quite likely a violation of the restoration act passed in the 1990s . so a lot of people upset across a lot of the spectrum on this.
>> you just brought up one of the issues when you said it's not just contraception, it's beyond that. the white house yesterday, jay carney , they seemed to be saying just wait to see how we every implement this. if the morning after pill is allowed to be exempted, will that calm the fears of some?
>> i don't think there's a 50 yard line here. i think the mandate itself is the problem. there will undoubtedly be an attempt to try to find a 50 yard line of the sort you describe, but the bishops of the united states on the catholic side of this, and this is before we get to mormons, evangelicals, orthodox jews , et cetera , are in this to fight it all the way.
>> you've been critical of a couple things. do you think the overall decision is a mistake, but also the way they handled it politically?
>> both of those. and your viewers should know george and i disagree a lot of the time and we've had differences in print now and again. and i think that one of the reasons and i think the administration is surprised by this, a lot of liberal catholics who have no objection in principal, do believe the church has -- and not just the catholic church -- has legitimate interest here in defining some of the basic rules for its provision of social services . there are enormous religious networks in this country. we would have a much less durable safety net for the poor without the religious institutions. and i think the administration did a couple things wrong here. i think they misread catholic opinion, but i also think they have given reassurances to some people inside the church. my understanding, president of the catholic health insurance who stuck her neck out to assume the affordable care act which i applauded at the time said, look, we need some accommodation here and they decided, no, we're not going do that. i believe they gave some reassurances to archbishop dolan. you don't give reassurances on the one side. the one place george and i might differ is i do think there has been and may be a 50 yard line --
>> what is it?
>> i think it's defined by what hawaii tried to do in a circumstance like this, where you do not require the religious institutions to violate their own religious precepts in this case on contraception, but you do provide a way for employees of hose institutions to get that coverage themselves at little or no cost. and i think that's the way around because you've got a religious liberty interest that the church legitimately has. you also have an interest in employees who want contraception coverage to get it. there has to be a way not to violate the church's basic rights on this.
>> as a 50 yard line, the hawaii way of doing this?
>> i've discussed that with several of the people previously mentioned in the program and chairman of the bishop's ad hoc committee and the hawaii compromise is a mondnonstarter.
>> i think there are a lot of catholic organizations who could accept a version of the hawaiian compromise. but i believe there is room for that.
>> politically the other argument that was made to me was, okay, we're basically going to make somebody mad. women's groups mad about not providing contraception for nurses at catholic hospitals essentially. or we'll make leaders in the catholic church upset. and it was a no win situation and they went with women.
>> i think the thing that strikes me about this is how this has struck a kind of tribal nerve in catholicismcatholicism. the catholic church has been beaten up and i think catholics are tired of the government and others beating up on the church. that's in my view one of the political facts behind this rather extraordinary reaction across the catholic spectrum.
>> are are you going to be surprised if it they don't for the just come up with some sort of -- they're standing by it thousand. do you think they'll pull back on this?
>> i think if you're a political consultant , you sometimes tell a politician you may have messed it up the first time, but if you revisit this, ulg get into more trouble. so i wouldn't be surprised if they try to avoid revisiting it. but i think that there are so many people who have been their allies on a lot of questions, notably in the provision of health care and social services , who said to them, look, this puts us in an entirely untenable position. we want to keep providing these services. you've got to do something for us. if i were the president, i'd call cecile richards , sister carol , bring them in, say i got a problem here, help me figure this out in a way that honors the rights you both care about and let's see what happens.
>> i wanted to keep this going, but i can't. thank you for very thought until conversation. and we will continue
