msnbc | March 30, 2012
>>> secret tactics exposed aimed at defeating marriage equality are fueling new outrage today. details revealed from unsealed court documents from an ethics commission investigation in maine , confidential national organization for marriage board update 2008 to 2009 declares its goal to quote drive a wedge between gays and blacks. that agenda fueling angry responses from the national thought leaders on civil rights , the national black justice coalition saying these documents expose for what it really is a hate group determined to use african-american faith leaders as pawns to push their agenda. julian bond says it's went of the most cynical things i've ever seen spelled out in this way, it's scary.
>> the one who called for the main investigation, and former president and co-founder of national organization for marriage, maggie gallagher . we had a mix-up with the booking on this topic wednesday. maggie graciously agreed to return on the subject today. start off with leadership about casting vision and your name is cited in documents they have subsections and titles, one called raising negatives and we need to interrupt the attempt to equate gay with black and sexual orientation with race. we immediate need to make sexual morally intellectually respectable again in elite culture .
>> i haven't stopped beating my wife yet because i never began beating my wife. listen, the problem -- this was an in-house document. i don't like the language because i think it makes us sound way too big for our britches. the truth is what we've done since 2009 , when that was described, is reach out and work with people across lines of different races, different creeds and different colors who believe we need to protect marriages, the union of husband and wife. i would never want to think that any of the minority leaders whether it's my hero, senator ruben diaz from the bronx, or the bishops from the church of god in christ , the largest black pentecostal denomination or any other leaders. you know, i'm -- it makes me seem more -- nom seem more powerful than it is. it's insulting to suggest the african-american or latino leaders are standing up because nom is manipulating them. the only reason anyone stands up for marriage at this point in this culture is out of principle because we believe it's a good thing and we're fighting for what we think is right.
>> the latino community, in these documents it also mentioned latinos specifically by saying we must interrupt this process of assimilation by making support for marriage a key badge of latino i didn't a cymbal of resistance of inappropriate assimilation. what do you mean by inappropriate assimilation? why is it too far off to think that nom carries this much power trying to inject yourself in the marriage equality discussion all over this country?
>> well, listen, the problem with the premise of your question suggests that we're making this up or we caused this divide. the divide is actually real. this was on the front page of "the washington post " on february 23rd and it says black pastors take heat for viewing same-sex marriage ace civil rights matter. all of a sudden they are big gots and haters, black men, leaders of the xluchcommunity. we didn't cause or create this. if we can get together with the gay community and take the idea that it's bigoted or discriminatory to stand up for marriage off the table for black people or for white people , we'll be happy to do it.
>> fred, why did you lead the charger in maine to have this started?
>> i've the organization since they formed themselves in qualify to pass prop 8 and saw they spent 500,000 in maine and they hadn't reported where their donors came from, which is illegal in the state of maine . i was asked by the ethics commission to file the report which i did and used my attorneys to ask for an investigation and they accommodated with 3-2 vote. despite the army of lawyers they brought with them.
>> how does this change the work that nom does? done the publicity that all of us provide send a dog whistle for people who support its work?
>> it opens a can of worms-toworms-to, thomas. they've got a lot of power, they've claim $20 million in the second year of their formation but reported $6 million on their irs statements manipulating the presidential race . they're citing this $3 million they were going to spend in 2011 and '12 to make marriage a requirement, fighting gay marriage a requirement for the presidential republican number anies and three signed the nonmarriage pledge. they're manipulating not just race baiting and things doing to divide and conquer but also inserting themselves into a federal election which they also have not reported any money. and i'm looking at filing charges against them on that as well.
>> maggie, i want to ask you about the latest inendeavor from nom to recruit celebrities, we also recognize the opportunity to gather and connect a community of artists, at leets, writers and, beauty queens and other noncognitive elites across national boundaieboundaries. what is nom's goal in putting something like that out? noncognitive elites?
>> noncognitive elites, many sources of pow, influence and authority, truth, goodness and beauty. we would reach out across all of those lines. it's the conspiratorial -- the conspiracy that you're describing is a conspiracy quote/unquote to find people who believe marriage is the union of husband and wife, whether they're christians, jews, black, white, hispanic, whether you're smart people like professor robbie george or impressive athletes to get our message out. and it's what's cynical is describe that as a conspiracy or illegitimate activity. it's really common sense.
>> twice now in the boardroom right here, the board notes and also in the new advertisement you're going after elites. why is marriage just for elites?
>> marriage is not for elites. we reach out -- of course we've got the majority of the american people on our side. it's like 15 or 20 different projects that we think we could or that we fougthought at the time could help in winning fight for marriage as the union of husband and wife. i don't apologize for any of them though i don't like the suggestion that somehow we have the power to make gay marriage advocates call other people bigots and haters, we don't. we wish they would stop or they have power to make african-american or latino democrats to do anything. we are grateful and respect the leadership they've shown for the values that they hold dear and we share.
>> fred karger, maggie gallagher , thanks to both of you for coming on today. appreciate it.