Path to legalization vs. path to citizenship: What is the difference?

>>> all right. 45 past the hour. a live look at the white house . beautiful day . everybody should be wake up now. here with us now, former republican governor of florida, jeb bush . good to see you again. he's the co-author of the new

book "immigration wars: forging an american solution."

>> really quickly, we were just talking, your dad is doing a lot better.

>> he is.

>> and your brother's library is opening up soon.

>> yeah, in april. everybody is excited about that in dallas, including my brother.

>> well, i was just going to ask --

>> and you lost weight.

>> does your brother even care?

>> i'm on the scarborough diet.

>> that's in the going to help you at all. you might want to rethink that. all right. i want to start with what was in "the miami herald " and launch into the conversation here. there's a former rom nromney adviser who takes a shot at you. they argued, where the hell was this jeb bush during the campaign? he spent all this time criticizing mitt romney and it turns out he basically has the same position. so he wants people to go back to their country and apply for citizenship? well, that's self-deportation. we got creamed for talking about that.

>> okay. let's back up. first of all --

>> do i have to talk about unnamed advisers as part of the rule here?

>> let's set the table. talk about the book first of all.

>> the book has six points to it. it's comprehensive immigration reform , different than what was advocated in the campaign by either candidate, frankly, a year ago. thankfully now there's a consensus brewing amongst democrats and republicans that there needs to be a consensus. we wrote this book last year, not this year. and we proposed a path to legalization. so anybody that had come illegally would have immediately a path to legalization.

>> what's the difference between a path to legalization and a path to citizenship and why is that so important?

>> the principle underlying what we've proposed is that if you don't have a difference between a path to citizenship or a path to legalization, you're going to create a magnet going forward for more illegal immigrants .

>> you're going to repeat what happened.

>> yeah, so going forward, we broke this last year -- going forward, if there is a difference, if you can craft that in law where you can have a path to citizenship where there isn't an incentive for people to come illegally, i'm all for it. i don't see how you do it, but i'm not smart enough to figure out every aspect of a really complex law. but i think the premise should be -- this should be a forward leaning immigration reform . what's it going to look like five years after you pass the law? you want aspiring immigrants to come to rebuild our demographic base. you want people to come that have skills that can make a difference to jump start our economy. and you don't want a repeat of the last 30 years where you have people coming in illegally or waiting in line.

>> you talk about this -- we started campaigning together in 1994 . you started warning republicans back in 1994 of the growing number of hispanics that were going to get out there.

>> a good thing, by the way.

>> yeah, a very good thing. but my gosh, 16, 17, 18 years later after you were issuing those warnings we got beaten because we did so poorly with hispanic voters. and this was a big part of the issue.

>> i would say the best indicator of the canary in the coal mine , if you will, is asian american voters, where you have higher incomes, more intact families, higher levels of education, more entrepreneurship. according to the exit polls , president obama won 75-24. bigger numbers than the hispanic margins, which is an ipd kandication of not just tone. it's an indication of a stiff arm people feel. whether it's fair or not is not relevant.

>> if you look at this moment and diagnostics or postmortem on the romney campaign, what are some of the other things that our republican party needs to stand for to appeal to more people?

>> first of all, i wish mitt romney was president right now because i think we'd have someone who would be in the midst of trying to form a consensus. it breaks my heart he's not there. his campaign wasn't the best, but he would have been a really fine president. i think going forward, we have to deal with our structural problems. the biggest one, as far as i'm concerned, is we're no longer socially mobile as a country. you have people that are born poor, and there's a higher and higher probability they're going to stay poor. you have people born rich . there's a greater possibility they'll stay rich. it is so un-american. yet, none of the conversation and the debates are really about this. upward mobility is the chance to solve a lot of problems because then people don't default to -- out of fear or exacerbation, you know, get in line basically. if they feel like life isn't fair to them, they can't succeed. it's only the big interests that can succeed, you know, big government , big business and all that. then they default to something that looks a little more like europe than historically --

>> how do we get the upper hand on that issue?

>> immigration is a core issue. i'm pleased people have thembraced this idea to come up with a consensus. marco rubio has done great work with that. but education reform . if people don't have the skills to succeed, no matter how many they dream, it's not going to work. i think tax reform is something that would make this possible as well. there are a whole lot of people in our country today that don't see the benefits of deferral of gratification or risk taking to be successful. so there's a lot of things we can do. regulatory reform . rules are created for the 1970s . we're living in a completely different world. embrace innovation. embrace the dynamic interaction of people rather than having a government response to every problem we face and persuade people that's the better path.

>> we only have a minute left. we have three questions. lightning round . steve?

>> rapid fire. you got one?

>> yes.

>> steve, make sure you don't take up the first 20 seconds. go.

>> governor, when you look at education, and the education reform that has to take place and the upward mobility you talk about, can you flush that out a bit more? what should the republican message be to minority communities in that space?

>> high standards for everybody, not lower standards for one group. more school choice , more compensation for teachers tied to student improvement, a demand that we have equality of education because we don't today. that we spend the money on reforms to assure every child has a chance to learn. we don't have that today in america. too many places there's just pockets of ill literaclliteracy.

>> we're now going to the game change 2016 camera.

>> just to clarify, if there was a piece of legislation that had a pathway to citizenship, people came here legally, eligible to become citizens without touching back in their home countries, would you support that?

>> i would support it if it didn't create an incentive for people to come illegally at the expense of coming legally. today, mark, if you -- there is no path to citizenship for a majority of the people that are trying to come to the country. if you say get in line, there is no line, or the line is so large it's a mythical line. 160 years for lines in philippines. so if you change the system so that there is a legal path and you have a different term for people that are, you know, here already illegally so that the incentive isn't to continue to have that processed, then i would support that for sure. the book doesn't propose that because this is a clearer way to create that delineation.

>> before you go, i'm curious of what you think of chris christie as a leader.

>> i love the guy.

>> and whether or not the republican party and conservative organizations are making proper use of his popularity.

>> we had that one the other day.

>> his mother was all upset.

>> are they not taking advantage of his popularity and his ability to breakthrough with the leader?

>> they took advantage of it last year. i'm sure they'll take advantage of it this year. they have low lives like me.

>> oh, i don't think so.

>> i love chris christie . i think he's been an incredible leader and role model for a lot of people about how to lead and govern.

>> there's something about leadership. i've always said it about you.

>> you were thinking christie when you looked at me.

>> you know, i actually am thinking about who could be in the next round.

>> you're looking at him. and chris.

>> and health-wise, i have noticed that you've lost weight. that's good. we should be able to talk about that.

>> all right. thank you so much. the book is "immigration wars." if you'll just stop now, he may come back if he runs for president.

>> he's fine with me.

>> i'm good with you.

>> thanks so much, jeb. greatly appreciated. you can read an excerpt on our blog mojo.msnbc.com. thanks, jeb. on tomorrow's show, jon huntsman is going to be here. he's going to be running in 2016 . we'll be right back with more