How talking about a story made Zerlina Maxwell become the story

>>> next week one of my guests appeared to debate the idea of arming women with guns as the solution to preventing rape. here's a little bit of how that went.

>> i don't think we should be telling women anything. we should tell men not to rape women .

>> criminals are not going to listen to that. i agree with you.

>> we're talking about if there's some faceless, nameless criminal. a lot of times it's someone that you know and trust.

>> well, i'm saying that women need to know the situation arise. evil exists in the world.

>> that was sean hannity , totally missing the point. and for her troubles, she was charged with racially charged rape and death threats on twitter. many so explicit we can't show them to you on television, in an attempt to say fewer women would be raped by men if fewer men raped women . we would like to give her the chance to expound upon her point on interrupted today. so i want to give you a chance to try to make the point that you were attempting to make on fox news. you can do that now.

>> essentially my point was the premise of the segment is give every woman a gun, that's rape prevention. i'm saying, that doesn't seem like a good idea. 80% of women are raped by someone that they know. you're not going to be on a date with a gun out on the table just in case you wanted to do something, i'm ready for you. that's not how social interactions happen. may point is maybe we should look at who is committing the rapes and why and what condition they had throughout their lives and maybe we can start by preventing the situation at all from happening so you don't need the gun.

>> so you talk ab socializing. you went in and you wrote about five points that we could promote. teach young men to see humanity. teach young men to express healthy masculinitmasculinity. and teach males about bystander intervention . i cited on the workshop. it was a bystander intervention workshop. one thing i left with is this needs to be a part of basic sex education . it's not that men don't know rape is wrong. a lot of them don't know how to identify what rape is. many of the bystanders saw something happening and didn't understand what they were seeing was rape. maybe they would have been more willing to intervene. that's where the bystander intervention comes in. if you know what you're seeing is rape, then maybe you're going to say maybe we should get this girl a cab. we should get her away from the guys. even if you don't know her. it's a responsibility of people to intervene. to make sure something bad is not going to happen.

>> to protect a friend. that was an aspect of the case, dawn, that the young woman was texting to her friends. if that was happening to me, why didn't you do something about it? you played football. you understand sort of the culture around they're not being taught to respect women 's humanity. anything you do in this group that are athletic and the stars in the campus, anything you do is okay.

>> i think it goes far beyond the culture of athletics and in this case of a football team . it's the culture of masculinity. it's the culture of men. we are raised in a culture that says women and girls are less than. it's the whole charge between guys, you run like a girl. you throw like a girl. it seems like an innocent statement at two ages. one, it creates a sense of masculinity, a very narrow understanding of masculinity. a broader sense of what it means to be a man. it says women and girls are less than. whether it's in the culture of sports or a lot of other cultures. just coming in here. # i think whether it's sports or any other kind of environment where men gather. in this case, these are boys. these are high school boys. these aren't men.

>> college.

>> no. high school . these learned from a culture around them. and we have a very voyeuristic way in which we experience early lessons of sexuality. they're taking in all of this that is very humiliating. when you look at how boys experience their first understanding of intimacy, sexual behavior and sexual interaction, it is not loving and caring and nurturing. it's not the lessons of humanity humanity. that's the question we should be asking. where is the humanity of the boys who say there's another human being . when is my responsibility as a human being to look after my fellow human being ?

>> right. and michael, you talk a lot about the culture that surrounds particularly young black boys as they're coming up and being the universal suspect and having to carry that burden, even as young as in high school . you also have athletic boys that are given permissioned to something criminal. it took other boys to tell them, man, you're a felon. that was only one. a lot of other people shared the images and thought they were humorous.

>> sure. when i was in high school i was not as good as don was. i tried my best as far as i could. i saw a lot of this culture in the locker room. for me, what is deeply troubling is the focus again is how do women avoid rape? and the conversation should be how do men not rape? we have the conversation with the girls about what you should wear. how you should walk home. we never have the conversation with our boys about how not to treat woman with disrespect. how not to take advantage of a girl who might be intoxicated. how not to do things that we should not be doing as young men. and that conversation should be the focus as we move forward. so rape is not one in five. but zero in five. that point of we tell women whatnot to do is why they get blamed. haven't we told you all these things? it's your fault you didn't do these things. you didn't carry the gun to a party. it was your fault that this happened.

>> i'm going to let you make those points after the break.

>>> some of the nation's most elite universitiesful are they participating in the coverups of sexual assault on campus? and may