Conservatives embrace Rubio, not Rove, to fight Obama

>> let's get right to our distinguished panel. i'm joined by my laughing colleague krystal ball who is the co-oes of "the cycle" here on msnbc. contributor jimmy williams . and also jonathan cape hart for the washington post . krystal , it's a big week for marco rubio . we just learned he's going to be delivering the republican response to the president's state of the union address . and he gave an interview last night to buzz feed which kind of made him sound relatively human for a republican.

>> that sounds interesting. well, the response to the state of the union is actually a very tough gig. we'll remember when bobby jindal did it.

>> that was terrible.

>> really, i mean it was terrible for him. people still remember it. he's still really recovering in the national eye from that response. and it's a hard thing to do. if you're the president, you have all this pomp and circumstance . you have both chambers of congress. you have, you know, national audience. and then -- supreme court justices in front of you. exactly. and then you have to go after that. what's your setting? bob ji jindal chose to do it in something that looks like a hotel lobby. macdonald chose to do it in the virginia house. his was strange and not well received. so it can be a double edged sword here.

>> okay. jonathan, senator rubio talked about lots of things at the buzz feed event last night. immigration, global warming . but i think he's most thoughtful on the subject of tupac versus biggie. take a listen.

>> the question is why am i not a biggie person?

>> yeah.

>> well, they weren't initially rivals. you know? that developed later on. wasn't my fight. you know? so i just think tupac 's lyrics were more insightful. my opinion with all apologies to the biggie fans.

>> you have to admit, it's a far cry from mitt romney singi ining "who let the dogs out."

>> a far cry .

>> senator rubio is following a tough act in mitt romney though.

>> i'm still trying to figure out whether senator rubio answered the question. if i were asked, i wouldn't know what to say. so i give him mad props for being able to vamp his way through that. but --

>> yeah, but jon, if you were trying to rebrand yourself, then you might be inclined to do a bit of research on hip hop and dress yourself up in this colorful character with a cultural interest which perhaps is slightly surprising. you might do that.

>> you might do that, but remember. the republican party 's entire focus is on the latino community, the hispanic vote. to do research on hip hop and tupac versus biggie would require senator rubio and the republicans to go down a road they don't seem to want to go down.

>> that's absolutely true. jimmy, karl rove has also been active in the gop's makeover. this one devoted to knocking off tea party candidates like the great todd akin . this of course has offended lots of republicans. so he had some explaining to do last night on sean hannity . take a listen.

>> i want to be clear about this. cross roads is second to none in our support of tea party candidates. in 2010 and '12, we spent over $30 million for senate candidates who were tea party candidates.

>> what he didn't write down on the little white board there is they've also spent $300 million in fact last year and have nothing to show for it. isn't that why mr. rove is slowly being rejected by many in his party?

>> i think what you're finding is the bush legacy is coming back to bite him in the b-u-t-t. the bad thing is the dog is now cashing the tail pipe. most republicans, many republicans, especially tea party republicans look back on the bush years with no fondness whatsoever. runaway spending, wars they don't like. the list is endless. and they see karl rove as the arkt tect of that. find me a republican that thinks george bush jr . was a good. t. you'll find few. so as the architect of that presidency, he says i'm the king maker of republican candidates. if that's the case, they don't want any part of it. and i don't blame them.

>> krystal , if karl rove wasn't happy with todd akin , he's not going to be happy with congressman paul brown who is filing papers today. he described embryology as a pit out of hell.

>> amazing. if he were to win the republican primary , democrats would have a shot at winning that seat in georgia which normally we would never have a real chance at winning. and that's what karl rove and -- that's what the republican establishment is concerned about. here's the thing can karl rove . you cannot spend four years trying to convince the country that the president is a lying socialist intent on destroying america and killing babies and confiscating guns and then turn around and say oh, we don't like the candidates who support those views that we have ourselves been pushing for the past four years. so this is the chickens coming home to roost now. they have to have over a long period of time an evolution where they are convincing their base that they need to have more moderate candidates, more moderate positions. that's going to take time.

>> do you agree with krystal ?

>> i agree with krystal 100%. they have to have more moderate rhetoric, but they also have to have policy positions that match the rhetoric.

>> 100%.

>> and when it comes to health care tacks, economy, immigration, gay and z lesbian rights , you name it. the republican party just isn't there.

>> and so jimmy do you regard this extreme makeover as being purely cosmetic in effect?

>> listen, everybody could have a facelift. the point is at some point it will fall back down again. this is remarkably simple. the party platform of the republicans is their theology. this is what you believe in. it's why you go to the church of politics. if your theology is that black people are lovely and want them to vote for us but don't believe they deserve equal rights of gay people , et cetera . all across the country. then that is your plot form. you can run away from it, but until you change the platform, it is what you stand for. if you don't stand for it b, you can't go out and say something differently. the democrats have to do exactly the same thing. they own their platform. and guess what? november 6, more of the country liked the democratic platform. they can't just put makeup on it to make it go away.

>> indeed they can't. thank you.