Does the GOP want to take the economy over fiscal cliff with them?

>>> the most severely conservative of republican pundits have consulted their unskewed polling and they see an electorate that will reward any republican who refuses to compromise on the fiscal cliff. now, we know that attitude didn't work well with voters when republicans held the debt ceiling hostage last year, but now with the economy showing signs of life this week, the question becomes will they again place ideology above country? for more we go to julian epstein , a democratic strategist and professor michael eric dyson of georgetown university and an msnbc political analyst . welcome to you both. professor dyson , the economy appears to be rebounding. gdp was better in the third quarter than we thought, up from 2% to 2.7%. and by one estimate new home sales this year will be up 8%, and yet conservatives advise us to place ideology first. now, do they realize what that could do to this country come january and that it will plunge the nation into a certain depression?

>> martin, they realize it, but i'm afraid they don't care. the reality is --

>> do you really believe that, professor dyson ?

>> i absolutely do. i believe this, i believe they are so mon know maniacal about pursuing their ideological beliefs they would defer even the fate of this nation to their particular policies, to their particular public policy recommendations and to their particular politics and ideology. why would we believe anything different? every critical moment in the last two years they proved to be partisans to their particular politics. they're not patri broader sake of the nation. they are concerned about getting in their ideological points. that is tea partyism, the way in which the constitution has been constructed according to them as strict constructionists. has to be wiping out every other concern of so-called minorities and their obsession with this fiscal cliff purity means they will put aside the interests of the nation, the polls have indicated that the nation is behind president obama . the few rays of sunshine that are now beaming down from the cosmos to suggest that this economy is in recovery will be put immediately back into the emergency room because of the destructive practices of the far right.

>> julian , do you agree with professor dyson ?

>> i have a slightly different take on the brilliant professor dyson . first of all, just on the economic figures. 2.7% gdp growth , we should not let that go uncommented on. that's a swing of positive 12% in gdp. give where this economy was when obama came in, that is probably the most significant and robust economic recovery we have seen in our lifetime. point two on the fiscal cliff, i mean, i think it's clear as professor dyson says that republicans are losing this argument politically. they lost the election. you see republicans like coburn beginning to crack. and every single poll shows that the republicans are losing the debate, both on the fiscal cliff and on the tax issue. they're losing the issue politically. i think they know they're losing the issue politically, and i think they know at some point they are going to have to concede a deal that are largely on president obama 's terms. but they're also losing the argument with economists. if you consider what president obama put forward yesterday with a $1.6 trillion in tax increases mostly on the wealthy, every single economic study has shown that that will have virtually no impact on gdp growth . the congressional budget office did a study that showed that it would decrease gdp growth by 0.1%. virtually no impact. republicans didn't like that cbo study although they always like the cbo . so they went to crs to see if they could do another study that would differ from the cbo study. crs confirmed it. all the economists are unanimous if we're going to try to go after the debt, now that we have virtually 3% gdp growth , we want do it in a way that's least damaging to the economy. almost all of them agree the obama approach is the right approach. increasing the rates on the wealthy will have no impact on job creation or gdp growth .

>> professor dyson , we found out today that the austerity budgets used in the eurozone have sent employment to record highs. unemployment in spain is at 25%. unemployment in greece, 25%. how is it possible speaker boehner comes out and promotes paul ryan 's budget for 2011 and 2012 as somehow the answer to our fiscal problems?

>> i mean, this is the indication that i'm afraid that they're stuck in the mud attitude and their ostrich-like oblivion to what's going on in the real world will lead to disastrous consequences. i hope my good friend julian epstein is right crunching those numbers. the cbo , the cds, they're going to cbs even to check out the apoth carries to find out what they're prognosticating. these people are insensitive to the critical claims of the electorate and the voter out here, the population out here that says, look, we're tired of this. we're tired of this mangling the record of obama for the sake of your ideology. we're tired of you going out here trying to prove your bona fides by adhering to a principle that has nothing to do with the bottom line. the reality is they are oblivious to the numbers because the number they're concerned about is the amount of people that they can drum up, if you will, the lock step movement of the house run by republicans to make sure that obama is still resisted. now, do i want to be wrong? absolutely. do i think that there is some wiggle room? absolutely. do i pray that julian epstein is right? absolutely. but the bonerism -- excuse me, the boehnerism in this country needs to be resisted.

>> call me naive --

>> very quickly, julian .

>> there's a point in every debate that we call a tipping point where one side realizes it's lost the debate. republicans realize they have lost the debate. not again just because of the election and what all the polls are saying, but because all of the economists are saying the obama approach is the more responsible approach.

>> and --

>> and that's the tripping point and they're still tripping.

>> touche on the tripping point but there's a reason that obama is taking this case to swing voters in pennsylvania and elsewhe elsewhere.

>> gentlemen --

>> he knows he's going to win the argument and he knows republicans will pay a dear political price.

>> julian epstein and professor michael